Black Stories/31: Cassandra Morrissey

Cassandra Morrissey:
First off, it’s realizing your humility, that there’s always something that you can never plan for. You can plan, but maybe it’s not the plan that you had in mind, but it’s also the importance of your network. It’s realizing that you can lean on people.

Justin James Lopez:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Amazon’s Black Stories, where we highlight the stories of Black designers, researchers, and creative minds from all around the world. I’m your host, Justin James Lopez, and today I’m joined by Cassandra Morrissey as we talk about the power of vulnerability and how to leverage your network to develop yourself. Let’s hear her story.

Well, thanks, Cassandra for joining me on the show. This episode is one that I’m really excited about, but before we get into it, I wanted to just give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to the audience here.

Cassandra Morrissey:
Thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here. My name is Cassandra. I am a content designer.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. So as a content designer, I actually had a content designer that prefers to be called a UX writer on the show recently. What’s the difference between... Is there a difference between content design and UX writing or traditional UX writing, or how would you describe that?

Cassandra Morrissey:
That’s a really interesting question because I think a lot of it depends on the company and the person that you’re speaking to and their experience and background. I would say for me specifically, there is a difference, and I would actually say UX writing is the in-between of content design and copywriting. So you’re still pulling in elements of what the user wants and helping them achieve their goals, but when I think of a UX writer, I don’t think as much of the strategy piece, and that is a big factor when it comes to content designer, content strategy is really that strategic element. And then if I look at the polar opposite side of copywriting, that’s more of just very foundational, I’m writing something to help convey a message.

So when I think of UX writing, it’s the blend of both of those, but still with a focus of writing, maybe less of the strategy.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. So what would you say is the ultimate goal for a content designer in a specific project?

Cassandra Morrissey:
I would say the ultimate goal would be to help the user, and whatever type of user that is, whether it’s an internal employee, whether it’s an external customer, but the user of whatever you’re designing to help them achieve their goals. That would be the ultimate goal of a content designer in a project.

Justin James Lopez:
And in doing that, do you kind of have to be the expert before they become... Yeah. You’re like the teacher and then teaching everyone else?

Cassandra Morrissey:
Yes, and that’s what’s been so interesting about content design is you can really immerse yourself in either an experience or a company or a specialty, but until you understand the ins and outs, and I don’t know if that really ever happens, it’s tough to really design or solve for something until you know as much as you can.

Justin James Lopez:
This might actually open up a trauma response, so be prepared for that. So how do you deal with situations where, in that kind of space, as a person that does myself love the concept of wisdom and just consistently learning, I can see how that could be beneficial for other people that are in that space. However, I do run into this very particular problem where I like to learn the things that I want to learn.

So as a content designer whose entire job is really kind of diving into all of these different unique spaces in order to really up-level the people that come after you and your customers, if you will, how do you balance that kind of love for learning when maybe the company you work for or the project you’re on isn’t something that you really want to know? Have you run into that and how do you deal with that?

Cassandra Morrissey:
Oddly enough, I have never run into that.

Justin James Lopez:
Oh, nice.

Cassandra Morrissey:
I think I have a very good ability to see, at least as a whole, we all have those days where it’s like, “Why am I doing this,” but to see the bright part or the benefit to whatever I’m doing. So even if it’s a project or a topic that maybe I’m not super, super passionate about, I still find myself drawn to aspects of that that I really enjoy. So I think that’s one of the beauties of content design is we cover so many different things that even if you’re not passionate about everything, hopefully within a project, you can find something you enjoy.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, you’re a better person than me because I’d just be like, “I can’t do this.” So it sounds like you haven’t run into that yet. Hopefully you won’t. You’ll just continue to just have that curious mind that keeps you open to different experiences.

But I want to understand more about how you got here though. If I recall, you started with studying journalism, right? And how do you go from studying journalism, naturally, there’s that writing aspect, but how do you go from studying journalism, which I feel like is a bit different than the writing that you’re doing now, how do you go from that in the natural trajectory that the mind wanders towards when you think of journalism to moving into content design?

Cassandra Morrissey:
I appreciate that question because it’s a pretty, I wouldn’t say a unique path, but it’s definitely not where I saw myself, but I’m super happy. So I actually wanted to be a news anchor when I started, so I went for broadcast journalism. So I feel like it was a unique blend of learning how to write, but it’s still a different type of writing than just newspaper writing, so traditional journalism. So there is that similarity between you’re still writing for users, you’re trying to convey a message quickly, help bring people in when we are all inundated, and granted, this was a while ago before we had just social media and an influx of constant news, but your whole goal was to still inform and educate quickly.

So after I graduated with my undergrad in broadcast journalism, like a lot of people, when I graduated, I had no idea what I was doing. I fell into some random roles of support, eventually found myself in technical writing. And that was also a very interesting background because you go from broadcast journalism, which is very quick, concise, a little bit of fluffy language to then very dry and a lot of information, you have to give everything. So I think it switched my approach to writing, but I think it helped train me to be the content designer I am now where I can flex between, okay, does this have to be a little bit lighter or does it have to be just very informative and helpful?

But I wouldn’t say a wrench that came in my background, I’ve always been interested in business, so I actually started my own nonprofit and realized I had no idea how to run any of this, so I went back and got my MBA, and all of these things ended up pushing me into a strategic creative career that I could still leverage my writing ability.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, it is an interesting trajectory. My background is pretty similar, not in the journalism part, but in how I even ended up in the space that I’m currently in is I graduated with actually two undergrad degrees and I had zero idea what to do with them. I was just like, “What do I do now? I have the pieces of paper that everyone said I was supposed to have, and I think this is the part where people say, ‘Hey, you’re hired,’ but I don’t know"-

Cassandra Morrissey:
“Here’s a job.”

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, “What am I supposed to do?” It was interesting because the moment you said that, I was like, “oh, this is my life,” and now years later, you go, “you know, that was just kind of a part of the journey.”

Cassandra Morrissey:
Yes. And that’s what I think is so wild is at the time, you’re somewhat excited, but you’re so scared because you are in debt and you’re trying to figure out what you’re doing with your life. But then when you look back on it, it’s like, “Okay, maybe this is not what I expected and maybe it’s not going from point A to point B in a straight line, but it’s still a result that I’m very happy and proud of.”

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. I think that one of the things for me that was difficult in that space is that up until that point, I was solely focusing on almost this call-and-response way of life where it’s like you ask me a question and then I can answer, right? You give me a test and then I fill it out. You give me an exam and then I do that. You tell me to go get a degree, I’ll go get the degree. And then you get here and they’re like, “What do you want to do?” And I was like, “Well, I was never prepared for that question.” And then you’re thrust it out into this world and then everyone just says, “Well, this is what we’ve been preparing you for.” And it’s like, “But you’re not though.” Did you feel that way?

Cassandra Morrissey:
I have so many things to say about this. Yes, I absolutely felt like that. And that’s what I think is so interesting is when we were starting school, it was very much a, “You have to go to college and get an education,” and at least for me, it was, “it doesn’t matter what it is in, but you have to do this.”

I think it’s amazing that a lot of people now have that option that if that doesn’t work for them and they have another opportunity, that’s still an option for them. And that was never for me, but I think it also, it puts a lot in a 17-year-old’s hand and to make that decision to say, “Okay, this is what I’m doing for the next four years,” and I think you end up being a little bit reluctant to then pivot away from that, especially at 22, because you don’t have the confidence to say, “I can still do this.” So it’s just this unique approach of, “You have to,” but there’s still not a whole lot of guidance, but now you’re in the real world and, “figure it out.”

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. I love the pivot stories though because I don’t think I’ve ever actually talked about this. So one of the fields of study that I had in my undergrad was psychology. I shifted and specialized in psychological pathologies. How does a human mind break down when it’s not working? What was interesting is I found myself, I think sophomore year, and it’s to the point that you just made, we were learning about these different psychological fallacies and I coupled the psychology degree with a rhetorical studies and human persuasion degree.

Cassandra Morrissey:
Oh, interesting.

Justin James Lopez:
So when you couple those things, we had a lot of cross-collaborative courses where you start to look at the psychology of human language and human interaction and things like that.

I remember sophomore year, I learned about the sunken cost fallacy. And I was like, “That’s what I’m doing right now.” I was like, “I just keep going because I kept going and we’re just going to see how far it goes.” But that, ironically, was what kept me in it. Not the sunken cause fallacy, but the fact that I finally started to see the dots connecting of this is how life actually works. I’m actually seeing an application of this with all of these kids around me. None of these kids know what the hell they want to do, but we’re all still just kind of trucking along. And then I started to unlock different things.

And the reason why I said I really love these kind of stories where people are pivoting is because it’s the first time where, to the point we’ve been making, you’re given the keys and then you go, “You know what? Maybe this wasn’t the right direction, but what can I do with what I’ve built?” And then that’s that inner creative that really is unlocked of, “Maybe I wasn’t necessarily directly prepared for this, but I was in a real way,” thank you all teachers and everyone that’s ever inspired me in my life, “in a kind of Mr. Miyagi way, you were kind of prepared for this world where you can say, ‘I’m going to take all of the skills that I’ve built and maybe build something different with my life.’”

And it sounds like that’s what you were doing as well. You’re saying, “Hey, this is what my plan is, what my ultimate goal is, but there’s also different ways to put these puzzle pieces together to make a beautiful picture.” The question is, do you still think about going into broadcast journalism?

Cassandra Morrissey:
It’s so different than, first off, I think what I thought it was. When I graduated, or before I graduated, I had an internship with an NBC affiliate, and you touched on this earlier, what you learn in school is very different than when you get out and what you’re doing in the real world. So that said to me that I don’t think I was cut out to be a great journalist, broadcast journalist.

So to answer your question, no, I don’t think about that. But I think there’s definitely times when you think to yourself, “As much as I love my career, if I went in a completely different path, what would my life look like?” I wanted to do everything from being a dentist to a marine biologist, so all very different things than content design and tech.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, I wanted to be a veterinarian actually, when I was very young. I think only my mother knows that. But yeah, I wanted to be a veterinarian when I was super young, and then I quickly threw that dream out the window, almost like in a betrayal way of, “Get this out of here.”

So I want to shift gears here. Throughout your journey, because I do love the wins, but I think that it’s also important to talk about how we got there. All of the successes that I’ve had in my life are attached to a number of failures and a number of areas where, hey, you know what? This maybe wasn’t the easiest thing to do. I wanted to kind of dive a bit into that. What are some of the areas throughout your journey where you maybe stumbled and what were some of the lessons that you learned from those?

Cassandra Morrissey:
So I would say there’s two probably pivotal points when I definitely at least stumbled, if not it was very difficult, and one was... So I’ve been laid off twice in my career, one more recently, and I think that has unfortunately become very common. But the first one was when I was young, and I think it was technically what I’d consider my first actual job outside of school. And you’re still nervous. This was, I think, before imposter syndrome was really a thing, but you’re just, “I have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m doing a good job because they hired me and I’m in my late 20s, so of course I’m amazing at everything I’m doing.” And then I was rudely awakened that that wasn’t the case.

And it had nothing to do with me, it was strictly a larger company decision, but that showed me the importance of a number of things. First off, it’s realizing your humility, that there’s always something that you can never plan for. You can plan, but maybe it’s not the plan that you had in mind. But it’s also the importance of your network. It’s realizing that you can lean on people.

But the second decision, I would definitely say, or the second point, it is realizing, and this is something that I’ve struggled with, it’s really leaning on your network. There’s been so many times when it’s very easy for you to just focus on, “Am I doing this right? Am I successful? Am I making the right choices in my career?” And having someone in your network that you can lean on or bounce ideas off of or just a safe space to talk to, that’s something that I think came a little late in my career, but I really realize the value of it now.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, I think that that’s a gem that I want to hold on to for a second and I want to continue to talk about because that’s something that, especially with this new kind of independent culture that we have where it’s like everyone’s self-made. No one’s self-made. But everyone apparently is self-made and nobody needs anyone. And to be honest, I kind of fell into that when I was younger in my career as well of, “I can do it all on my own. I can figure this out. I, I, I.” And what I really quickly found out is that it can get really overwhelming when you have to figure everything out, when you can’t trust anyone. It takes so much energy to not trust anyone, to not be able to lean on anyone.

Let me start by asking, did you ever go through that kind of spell where you felt like you needed to be able to be the one that solved every question? And how did you overcome that if you did?

Cassandra Morrissey:
Absolutely. I think it’s very easy, to your point, to just think, “I have to do everything. I’m the one that has to find, figure out everything.”

So it was, oddly enough, that Brené Brown discussion she had on vulnerability, and I do connect vulnerability with having the ability to grow your network because that takes breaking down potential walls that you have and being able to talk to people and put yourself out there. So it was me listening to that discussion that made me realize the importance of being a human and not just a wall behind my computer that I type. So then it was just reaching out to people, trying to find that safe place, the commonality that we may have between other designers or even people outside of the industry, but it takes time.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, I think it pays off though in the long run when you think about it because I always remember this. So I’m the first person in my family to go to college, graduate, go out into the world, really just kind of try to navigate things. And one thing that I learned early on was, and this is not a judgment, this is actually something that I found really valuable and I continue to find valuable as I continue to grow, is that my parents, at an early age, at an earlier age than I think most other people, I got to the point where my parents really couldn’t help me in the traditional sense of you don’t have the blueprint to help in this next stage. And I can imagine that can be demoralizing to a parent when you have this child that’s like, “I have all these ambitions. I want to do these things,” and it’s like, “well, I don’t know how to help you.”

And my parents never really had that moment for me. What they did, and this is what I really appreciate, is instead they said, “We’ll help you by teaching you the lessons that maybe school can’t teach you.” And one of those really important things is what you’re talking about is remembering that humanness, remembering to bring that back into the equation, to understand the value of being vulnerable. And these are the things that I find myself way later in life coming back to and going, “This is really important.”

And the reason why I bring this up is because I imagine when I was in those spaces when I was younger in my career or less tenured in my career and where I was, “I have to do it all, al of these things,” that exudes into every interaction that you have.

And ultimately, what it does is there’s this saying, back to my original point, that my mom used to say, and it’s, “You teach people how to treat you.” And if all you ever do is say, “I don’t need your help, I don’t need this, I can do it on my own,” then in these moments where you are laid off or things don’t work out, then you go to LinkedIn or then you go to your network and you go, “Hey, I need help,” people are less likely to help and more reluctant to want to even click on your post or want to even take time because of that teaching moment that you’ve had over the past couple of years where it’s like, “I’ll figure it out on my own. I don’t need anyone’s help.” So you’ve never actually built those relationships, versus the opposite being, if you are vulnerable, you do give people space to understand your journey, to understand that things are rocky so when you fall, there’s a lot more hands that are willing to help you up.

How has that path influenced your growth?

Cassandra Morrissey:
First off, I really appreciate how you explained that because I think the connection piece in wanting to help and then grow the network, those are all tied together. So I completely agree.

I am a big believer in empathy, and when I think of my network and how I show up for my network and how I would hope people show up for me in my network, I try to think about how I would want to be treated. And that goes hand in hand with teaching them. So if I know that I want respect, if I want someone to, I don’t know, keep me in mind if there’s a new job opening or be there if there’s difficult times, I would show them the same. So if I see them posting something that may be difficult... I recently saw this very sad cancer post and it immediately made me want to reach out and I don’t know this person, but be there to try and offer support because that’s something that’s impacted me directly. And I think whenever I think of teaching someone of how I want to be treated, I try to put myself in their shoes and how I would show up for them.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that kind of golden rule there. I find it really interesting because one of the hardest things for me, one, naturally coming from my background of I grew up in a family that didn’t have much money, didn’t have much resources, so there’s kind of that survival mentality that I was instilled. Two, being a man in that environment, in this environment and then being a man of color in this environment, all of those things lead to this natural, I guess you could say resentment, but also just this hesitation towards vulnerability.

And the one interesting thing that I found is that I was almost terrified of being vulnerable, but then when I started to do it, not only did I feel like, “Oh my God,” a weight lifted, but it had that effect of my network, whether it was socially, whether it was in-person, people, one, naturally started to gravitate more toward me of like, “Hey, I want to spend more time with this person. I want to talk to this person.” But also. my social networks started to really jump as far as people that either subscribed or followed, people that comment and engaged on my content. People would literally reach out and go, “Hey, you haven’t posted in a while. I really enjoy some of the things in your thoughts and things like that. Is everything okay?”

And not like I was posting... You know, sometimes people post negatives like, “Oh, I’m having a bad day,” and then they’ll reach out. But sometimes it would just be I hadn’t posted in a couple of days and people were like, “Is everything okay?” And that was something that made me feel really connected. And for the first time, and this was a couple years ago when it started, for the first time, made me feel like, “Man, there’s a lot that I need to unlearn in order to continue to move forward.”

What were some of the things that you maybe needed to unlearn in order to open up levels in your career or in your life?

Cassandra Morrissey:
Oh, gosh. Pandora’s box. Very similar to what you were saying. So I grew up with a single mom and she was in the military. So from the get-go, she’s always been a very, very strong person. But as amazing as her strength is, she definitely did not have the ability to ask for help. And I think asking for help, that shows strength. That’s being able to say, “I need someone to help me,” and she didn’t do that. So I think that’s the first thing that I’m still unlearning is that it’s not a bad thing to ask for help. And I think the help, the vulnerability, the empathy, all of that is intertwined, and it’s a tough thing to unlearn.

But the next thing is that people are good. And I think especially, there’s always things that we see in the news or you hear things at the water cooler, but I think it’s very easy to go down a path of, oh, you hear negative information and just let it build on you, but I don’t think that’s the case, and you have to unlearn that.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that’s a really powerful one, and that’s something that I had to learn as well. My father actually would teach me the opposite. He would say, “Always prepare yourself for the worst-case scenario,” which is valuable information now when I understand the full context of it, it’s like... But as a child, as a young six-year-old, five-year old, you’re hearing this and then you’re thinking, “The world is negative. The world is trying to get me.” So that’s kind of how I was in this, again, when you’re being raised in this kind of survival mentality, I understand the necessity of that, but I also thought that that context was missing.

And as I’ve gotten older, I realized what he was trying to teach me was this very important, and this is what I teach to my son now, is this concept of, “Hey, it’s okay to feel all of the feelings. You can be angry, you can be upset by what people do, what happens, all of these things. Feel these things. One thing you should always try to limit in your life is surprise.” And this was really interesting, and I think that this is what the core lesson was, was when you prepare yourself for the worst-case scenario, you’re very rarely surprised by what happens. And if you’re less surprised, you’re more able to actually, within reason and with calmness, actually respond instead of react to what’s happening in your life.

But when you’re shocked, when you’re surprised, if you ever notice, you kind of freeze. Even in those micro, you kind of freeze. But that’s the same thing that happens to us in these big moments when we’re surprised by what happened. We’re surprised by the market, we’re surprised by layoffs and all these things, and we spend weeks, months frozen in time at a macro level. And that’s one thing that I really, really valued because I think it really prepared me for just the chaos that is the world. But it also, to your point, helped me understand that the world isn’t necessarily evil or bad or out to get me. Life isn’t happening to me, it’s just happening.

Cassandra Morrissey:
I feel like that so eloquently ties into what we were saying in the beginning as far as just being prepared. And even if you graduate school and you’re in a different degree than you planned, it’s having that ability to pivot and realize, “Okay, this isn’t what I planned for, but it will still be okay. Things are okay.” Not letting things happen to you and kind of taking control as much as you can, but that’s always tough to do in life. There’s so many other variables.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. And that’s always going to be the case. What I found in that early example that I was talking about with the blueprint of my parents not necessarily having the blueprint, I realized I, as “prepared,” as educated, as experienced as I was, I didn’t have a blueprint either. I don’t have a blueprint. I’m just as or not as prepared as anyone else. And what it taught me, and this is kind of that vulnerability thing, is we’re all just winging it. And we’re pretending like we’re not. We’re like, “Oh, I know what I’m doing.” No, you don’t. You’re just doing what you thought worked and one time might’ve worked.

What has been the most beneficial lesson that you’ve learned throughout your career that you think a younger version of you could benefit from?

Cassandra Morrissey:
I would actually say it’s two things. I don’t know if it sounds cliche, but it’s letting go, the importance of being able to let go and not fixate. That’s something that I wish my younger self learned professionally, personally. I think my life probably would’ve been a lot less stressful if I understood that.

But also, the importance of persistence. I think it’s very easy to get knocked down or things not work out how you expected and then just give up. And I think there’s been many opportunities in my life that I probably could have and just said, “This is too difficult. I’m not going to,” but just chipping away either at your goals or your assignment or something and then just to keep coming back, that’s something that I think I fixated a lot on timelines instead of just knowing that persistence, as cliche as it is, persistence pays off. And I think that I wish I trusted myself, my younger self, a little bit more to actually believe that.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that’s a good one. I think that’s a good one for anyone to really incorporate is that need for control.

Cassandra Morrissey:
Yes, yes.

Justin James Lopez:
We always just want to put all, “I can do all of these things,” and it leads into what we were talking about before of that independent mentality of, “I can do it all. I need to control everything.” And then as we get further, this actually helped me as I’ve gotten more tenured and then moved into spaces where now I need to lead others and work through others and scale. The concept of scale is terrifying if you feel like you have to be independent and do everything. That is the greatest moment of humility is when you are the most independent person and people go, “Okay. Now scale this.” And you go, “Oh my goodness.”

Cassandra Morrissey:
Yes. And you’re like, “Oh, no.”

Justin James Lopez:
“There’s no way. There’s no way.”

Cassandra Morrissey:
“There’s only one of me.”

Justin James Lopez:
“I was not... I’m not ready.”

Cassandra Morrissey:
Yes.

Justin James Lopez:
This was an amazing conversation and I’m really excited to continue to build our friendship and to learn more, but I just wanted to thank you again for joining us on this episode. This is a really good one that I think the audience is going to love.

Cassandra Morrissey:
Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time and I really appreciate you.